January 31, 2013
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ATTN: Men – Preferrably Married or Divorced
I’ve got a load of questions here. I’m a little aggravated and trying not not to sound like a judgmental prude that is unaware of man’s nature and constant sex drive, but, truthfully, I’m somewhat disgusted by what men say about women in the company of other men.
Apparently I’m just ignorant and was unaware that it is not only okay, but unavoidable for men to discuss other women in sexual ways while in fellowship with other ‘guys’ – especially young single men. Forgive me for assuming my husband and others’ husbands would respect their wives and not speak in such raunchy ways about every piece of ass that walks in front of them *cough* I mean, every woman.
I wonder, men, if you consider how disrespectful it is to your wives to openly speak about sexual things you would do to these women if you ‘had the chance’. I wonder because I know that even though I’m confident and feel very secure that I can meet my husbands needs… it really sucks now to know that every time those bastards at his job look at me they probably don’t think he’s getting any or that there is something wrong with me that I’m not as desirable as that old lady with the saggy butt Johnny can’t stop talking about (he has an old lady fetish), I just don’t get it. I get that it happens. I don’t even expect him not to slip up, but I’m jut tired of hearing about it. I’m over it and I’m appalled.
Do you speak like this about other women? Do you consider it disrespectful? Do you tell your wives the things you say? Come on… fill me in because it’s possible I might just be totally misunderstanding what marriage is….
Comments (60)
I’ll be back to speak on this.
Oops, I had misread this as your hubby talking about YOU, not other women. Gimme a sec.
EDIT – okay, when it comes to a spouse talking about other people in a sexual manner… I think it depends largely on the comfort level as well as the nature of the discussion. In some cases, some of my ladyfriends will join in with the husband or maybe poke fun at him for his taste. In other cases the reaction is less than pleasant. The same happens vice versa as well, with guyfriends having varying responses to their wives checking out other men and talking about them in a sexual manner.
Whatever the case may be, my general rule of thumb is that I think if it bothers you, you should talk to your husband about it and let him know how you feel. For me personally, I figure that as long as they are just talking and not acting on it, I’m not going to bother with it too much. But I’m not married so I wouldn’t know how I’d actually react.
@QuantumStorm - maybe ive entertained his joking too long. but its just because i’m really not jealous and its just a joke. but recently the nature of the things hes shared are uncomfortable and crossing the line which he just says i need to get over. i mean we even joke together because his tatse in women is alarmingly gross. its kind of disturbing so i never think anything of it. but ive noticed hes not just joking about the old ladies with the young guys and there is something else i cant share maing me think he needs to reign this in.
Hi! I’m divorced and about to be engaged again (oh what people must be thinking). I personally don’t like to talk about what I would do to other women, even in the presence of other guys. I have the experience of having somebody who didn’t know that the girl who passed them happened to be my sister, tell me about the ways they would violate her. I don’t talk about other women that way, I’m far from one of those bible-thumpers you’re probably getting an image of. I only have one woman I consider desirable and I don’t like to even think of hurting her feelings. But then again, I’m old fashioned.
Could you give us more specifics? I’m confused. He is telling his guy friends ways in which he’d like to fuck a certain person?
I could speak a lot on this topic, having been married since 1980, and having spent the better part of my career around sailors and nuclear plant operators (a very male dominant field).
I’ll start with just me: “No, I don’t speak this way.” But I will also say I’m an exception to the rule. All the people who’ve had a positive influence in my life have been women, and the vast majority of negatively influential people have been men. So, I have both a special understanding and special love for women. I’m that rare male that understands how most women think.
That aside, I do hear and see a lot of what you described. I know that many men do, in fact, say or tell their wives those things and cloak it under the guise of “being honest.” And that’s all I’ll say about that.
There are others who do not say such things to their wives, but do make lewd comments on a routine basis when they are not around.
But I will say this – in all these years, I very seldom hear a man talk about sex with his wife. Curiously, I’ve heard more stories about women sharing a lot of TMI on their husband’s sexual habits with other women.
Men, by and large, make their lewd commentary on women with whom they do not have a relationship. Usually, it’s a bonding sort of discussion, not unlike talking about hunting, fishing, sports, or cars. I’m not justifying this – I’m just letting you know the most common context for those kind of remarks.
If you want my honest guess about you … judging from your profile pic, I’d venture to say you probably receive the more *ahem* ”complimentary” comments from your husband’s peers, even if not to his face.
I think this goes along the lines of…. If what is said can’t be said in front of your spouse…. it probably should not be spoken…. this has nothing to do with being religious… this is basic etiquette the gentleman should have not only when the spouse is present… the guilt trip way to look at it is simply to think ” that is some ones sister, daughter, wife…mother” and would you allow such talk if they were yours? there’s a proverb that says… it is better to be quiet and let people think you are not a fool, than to speak up and reveal the truth….no one is perfect… but making a valid attempt is a good place to start…if anything our other haft is doing that troubles us…it is important enough to be addressed.
Okay, so here’s my take on it…
Do you speak like this about other women?
No. While I know that we live in an over-sexualized culture, I personally don’t believe it’s appropriate to discuss with other men the kind of sexual acts I’d perform with women other than my wife.
Do you consider it disrespectful?
In a way, yes. I think that depending on the things being said, I could do more to damage my wife’s image than to preserve it. And as her husband, I have a responsibility to not only protect her honor, but champion it to others. Like I mentioned in a previous post.
Do you tell your wives the things you say?
I always tell my wife when I brag about her. I think that it would undermine the foundation of my marriage to ever speak ill of her to other people. If we have an issue, we work it out together in the safety and privacy of our marriage. Not by airing our dirty laundry and allowing anyone with a random opinion to chime in. Especially when my wife and I are the only two people who fully understand the details of our particular circumstances.
I have observed the same thing in many married men. It is completely disgusting – but I try not to judge too harshly.I *THINK* (to myself) many of the things they say out loud. So which is worse? For example, you are a beautiful woman – but that is all I will say out loud. Tell your hubby to *think* anything he wants – but to keep his mouth shut with the guys because it dishonors you! They should be thinking by his words and actions that YOU are the only woman he ever needs or wants! Right? Right!
I was raised to respect women plain and simple.
I do not like the way many men talk about women–sexually.
You are right–it is wrong.
I’m divorced (as you know) and hurt my ex-wife in ways related to what your saying. She shared with me in counseling and I didn’t hear her in that moment.
I don’t hear that talk from older mature men, but remember joining in with younger men when I was younger. When a man knows more of who he is and is less motivated to fit in or prove himself he finds less benefit in bravado (sexual or otherwise). I think its yet another part of many men’s life journey.
There seems an invitation to remind your husband who he is…that awesome man you married. And you can do that by merely standing uprightly sharing your feelings in a respectful mannor without judgement or shame…and pray. You can’t control his behavior, but perfect love casts out fear…and fear underlies machismo behavior of any kind. He may see your perspective and it may take time as he experiences your love and learns to trust you and your feelings more and more. You’ve shared that that’s happened already in other circumstances.
May God bless you guys…and lead you into deeper intimacy with Him and each other!
I worked in a professional work environment for so many of my early years that I just learned to be careful what I said. So I don’t say things that others would say. But some guys at work talk like that.
I would not place all men in your idea of all this just like I don’t put all women in the role of talking about men when they are with the girls. Some of us cherish the women we are with or have been with.
@buddy71 - Im not placing all men in this role…. my husband is. this is why im asking these questions because i dont think all men feel they way he does.
I have friends who like to talk like that. The most I generally contribute to those kinds of conversations is agreeing that the woman is an attractive woman, followed by mocking my friend’s chances of getting a date with her. I do inform my wife about some of the conversations, but some really just aren’t important enough to share. I generally don’t view their partners negatively at all, I just chalk it up to male genetics.
@MyxlDove - are you warning me about airing my dirty laundry right now?
@ShimmerBodyCream - i dont know all the details. today they were interviewing a woman for warehouse manager and theguys were talking about how if she gets hired theyd do this and that to her here and there…. i aksed if he said the same stuff about women… and his obvious answer amongst some other issues recently resulted in this blog.
@xXrEMmUsXx - ok. sorry for me being confused.
I am not a troll. Just wanted to see what you had to say and what the answers would be. Interesting. Sometimes I visit a blog and have nothing to say on the subject and leave so I thought I had better let you know I am not a troll.
“it really sucks now to know that every time those bastards at his job
look at me they probably don’t think he’s getting any or that there is
something wrong with me that I’m not as desirable as that old lady with
the saggy butt Johnny can’t stop talking about (he has an old lady
fetish), I just don’t get it. “
Why do you care about what your husband’s friends/colleagues think of your sexual performance?
@TutelageOfTheMundane - i care about what state it makes our marriage relationship look like… not about my performance sexually.
@xXrEMmUsXx - Oh. Then, why does it matter what others think of your marriage?
@xXrEMmUsXx - No, not at all.
You are genuinely inquiring about something that confused you. That’s reasonable. Unreasonable would be you making disparaging remarks about your husbands physical appearance and sexual performance, which you are not.
It is completely dependent on the circumstances how I speak. In certain venues there is a language which is expected and aceptable, where as in another it is not. One needs to practice discretrion and know when which is appropriate. For the most part younger men are more liberal with their expressions and older men are more reservedor selective about what they say. Alcohol however has the tendency of loosening lips.
My husband doesn’t discuss sexual things at all with his buddies. He may make jokes about their taste in women, but that’s it. He is pretty graphic when speaking to me about sex which is becoming quite the turn off. I read that there was something else you couldn’t share, which is totally understandable. But that may also affect the way this post is received by depending on what it is. I hope you find some answers. As a wife, I would suggest talking to your husband about the way you feel and that it has crossed the line from joking to no longer acceptable by you. It’s a respect thing in my opinion.
I’ve been married for 32 years. I am certainly not a perfect husband, but I would never knowingly act in ways that would be disrespectful to my wife. I was going to suggest that perhaps it is generational, but the truth is, my son and his friends (all single men in their twenties) treat women respectfully. The behavior you describe in this post is quite simply unacceptable.
There are so many ways to screw up a marriage. Gross locker room talk in front of the wife is a most successful and time honored one.
@god_stories - This was very very helpful and aided in pulling me out of my aggressive conversation. I know Johnny’s weaknesses, but its so often hard to be gentle when there seems to be no desire to hear me. We talked long and exhaustive last night. Some things felt hopeful other things felt like they just needed to be shelved.
@MyxlDove - Sorry… think I got a little on the defense there. It’s actually a bit angering to hear people say “cherish” when they speak about the way they consider their wives. When I use that word with Johnny he tends to just ignore it or have a big question mark above his head like its a foreign word. I get that he just wasn’t raised to respect or honor his wife… but I guess I just figured after almost 8 years of marriage it would start to happen as we evolved as a couple.
@xsimplepleasuresx - You know, that is kind of the image I had… that he just laughs with the guys while they talk crudely… no big deal as long as he’s not saying those things too. I don’t expect him to correct the younger single guys or anything, but he is the warehouse manager and some of the things they were saying about a woman being interviewed would have scared me out of the job. And while I think he’s way more mild then those guys… in the past few months I’ve realized my sweet gentle husband is kinda crazy and very very different at work. I’m baffled.
@Grannys_Place - nah, I know better =] seen you around! =] Thanks for reading.
@TutelageOfTheMundane - Why does it matter to me in general what people thing of my marriage?
I’m pretty sure no matter what I say I’m going to get a “you shouldn’t care what other people think”. response.
But… I’ll answer anyway:
These guys are younger men. They are single and my husband is the warehouse manager. It concerns me that he does not respect his wife and ultimately his marriage in conversation with them and others. Why? I believe people should help each other be better and is disheartening to know that there is no concern for women at his place of work and he is a part of the problem. It would be one thing to listen and laugh with the guys, but realizing that he is not just laughing along but also contributing to the behavior makes me a frustrated that after almost 8 years of marriage, my sweet gentle husband is someone completely different at the work place.
I come in there here and there. He has always expected me to ‘represent’ him at church etc… and I too would hope that he represents me well.
@cmarf - Oh… we’ve discussed it. I never blog about issues with my husband and not address them face to face.
is this unlawful? if so, maybe you should file a complain.
@PlatotheSmurf - You know… when its us joking… its easier to take. To hear what is said when I’m not there is disturbing. Just seems totally out of character.
@xXrEMmUsXx - No worries, my friend. Just know that I am not the type to provoke or insult people. Especially TBOs.
In all fairness, I have heard a TON of women doing the same thing. I worked in a Doctors office when I was in High School, and the women were constantly talking about sex, and their husbands. And I’m talking about VERRRYYYY graphic, inappropriate, and often disturbing stuff.
To this day, I have yet to hear filth that could compete with the words that flew around in that office.
@amateurprose - I won’t lie and Johnny knows it too… when me and girls get together for a night in at each others’ houses… sex is out favorite topic and since we’re all married… it is about OUR sex lives. However… at work, nope. People talk about sex. Married women talk about sex with their husbands. I think I’d be less concerned if he would just throw a few lines in there about how he’s satisfied at home… when I talk about sex its about sex with him not with 5 other men at ONE time.
I only sing my lover’s praises, at work or otherwise. She does the same. I’m sorry that happened. But past lovers? They are all fair game, for the most part, and remain nameless.
i’ve been with my wife for a little over twenty years – and i work in the trades, (i deal with homeowners – usually the wives, the income bracket we tend to service is usually a stay at home mom). a number of folk have commented about the ‘taming’ of comments as we age – and i’d say that’s the general rule – and if your husband is in a leadership position i’d say he’s just trying to keep with the current crowd… but if he’s not listening there’s a couple thoughts – are you being crystal clear with your feelings? (lots of women say they are – but to be honest, a lot just make suggestions and expect interpretations.) are you having these discussions at a time when he’s willing to listen? (i know there are days when i’m beat (physically or mentally or both) and i simply don’t want to talk about certain subjects, so we’ll table it and tackle it at another time)… good luck – seems to be about communication…
All my friends are guys. I listen to them every day talk about girls. Girls they’ve fucked, girls they’re currently fucking, girls they’ve shared, girls they wanna bang. Girls on TV etc etc. They’re 20-something year old men, of course they’re gonna talk about it. Some are married, some are engaged, some are single. Doesn’t matter.
My boyfriend will makes comments about us when I’m there. I’m sure they talk about our sex life when I’m gone.
As a woman, I’ve done the same thing. When I had girlfriends we’d talk about our boyfriends or latest conquests. How big his dick was, how good he was in bed, how he rated compared to our exes. Debating whether to see him/sleep with him again. It’s not just a male trait.
@xplorrn - good advice. right now he’s stressed so pointing out something heavy like this did not bring a good productive reaction. I think I can shelve it until a better time.
@Pure_Taint - I never said it was just a male trait. The girls always talk about sex. We are all married though, so its usually about our husbands. He does’t talk about our sex life ever though – thats private. But his fantasies about other women are open game with the guys. Just bizarre to me.
I don’t assume all men do this. I don’t assume women don’t. I just wanted opinions about where we are with it.
We’ve never discussed the size of our husbands though… kind of taboo in our circle of girls, but sex is our favorite topic. I would never expect him not to talk about sex.
@xXrEMmUsXx - Yeah I understand the distinction. I can’t count how many times while walking around Walmart my boyfriend will do a “She’s got an ass on her, I’d tap that.” or while watching TV “I’d bend her over and fuck the shit out of her.”
In my experience, EVERY guy does that. It doesn’t bother me.
@Pure_Taint - I think there are other things related to that bothering me at the time. Sometimes the joking is funny, other times it feels disrespectful. We need to find our balance. Some couples are kinkier than others. Some women are super jealous too… kind of frustrates me when a woman can’t handle her man saying another woman is attractive.
It should really be a huge compliment. “If I had the chance…”
In reality, we do have the chance. We could take that chance if we so choose. But we don’t.
Why not? Because it’s not worth it. It’s not worth hurting the woman we chose to spend the rest of our lives with.
That, and even though most won’t admit it, it’s just bullshit talk anyway. A way to brag and puff out our chests because we can and not get called out for not following through.
“Forgive me for assuming my husband and others’ husbands would respect their wives and not speak in such raunchy ways about every piece of ass that walks in front of them *cough* I mean, every woman.” SURE, no problem-o
Do you speak like this about other women? NOT anymore
Do you consider it disrespectful? Yes, I do these days
Do you tell your wives the things you say?” I did / divorced – would not now
I’ve been both… the man becoming the dream man and the man living the dream.
In my youth I was involved with my wife then in sleeping with others – swinging. It didn’t seem then to help me — it did in the long run. She really only did this because of me; to save our marriage. So, it didn’t help her either b/c you see, we divorced after only 5 years, 2 sons later. I did grow up in time and I am a very different person. I stopped talking about what I’d do if when I did do the what if. I’d already done more than the other men at work. They were warm puffs of air saying their puffed up nonsense with no understanding what-so-ever of what a woman wants. They didn’t stand a chance of acting out their fantasies. A few times, I said so — it shuts them up when I share to macho social misfits that they are acting as pathetic boys fantasizing about what will never happen. They can do better if they will apply themselves – but it isn’t happening by “I’d her” - on the job.
Its immature and it gets usually pathetic but no one usually in the group matures enough to say so and also gain by respect. I could do that then.
I changed – it didn’t work for me to be the dream man. I wasn’t living the dream.
Now, here is a truth for you.
This is an introverts/feelings virtual playground. Large numbers of the men here are INFJ/INFP/ITFP types. They are intuitive, caring, sensitive, and above average in maturity usually. They value people’s feelings and they share their vulnerabilities better than the average male. So, what you will find is the opposite of the extrovert attempts of bonding as what you notice of males in the workplace. Did you notice the other men (not as much, eh… you have an eye for which ones). Some of the males are messed up because of horrible lives – but most are pretty mentally/emotionally stable – even it it took them most of a lifetime to get there.
The ESTP types are doers. They are NOT great communicators with concerns about for cultural values above immediate pleasure.
INFJ: quiet and reserved; focus on the big picture rather than the details; give more weight to personal/social considerations than logic; tend to plan their activities and like predictability
ESTP: motivated by their interaction with people – so outgoing; focus their attention on the details of what is currently happening rather than the big picture; prefer logic to social norms; like to keep things open- delay decisions
Your husband is likely more the estp than the infj — opposites — you are more likely closer to the infj than to preferring the estp characteristics.
Thus, if I am right, your communication with him needs to evolve into an understanding by you of how he see reality — not at all like you do. He hasn’t got the built in characteristics that will motivate a change — you have to do the changing.
Of course from what you said, you wonder – can it be possible that he can guess these things… it is possible. I’d be more accurate if I knew more… but this is a free consult.
$120.00 fee waived… and if my assumptions are even almost 75% accurate, you have a place to start.
@grim_truth - but why not brag about the beauty you go home to? why not make your image out of the sanctity and beauty of that marriage?
I am pretty comfortable being perverted around my wife, but am pretty careful what I say in public, especially in a workplace.
While being sexual is part of being human, I don’t think it means we think less of others, necessarily. I know that sex is a very small part of most people’s lives, and who most people are.
btw, my wife was an ESTP and I always was an INFJ then. If she’d have been an INF type, I’d probably not have the same early adult experiences. I (very probably) needed to have her then. She was so strongly an extrovert that she enrolled others into our sexuality – easily. She was a spirit filled born-again Christian too. She had no problem though with getting us into group sex. I don’t suppose she even had one bit of trouble to confess it at her devout confessions and then do it all over again.
@xXrEMmUsXx - cuz that’s just not the guy thing to do lol. We’re married to that gal. It’s pretty much a given that we’ve slept with her. The one walking past, nope. But we can say “if I had the chance” and guys buy off on it without challenging it. In a weird guy way, it IS bragging about it. It’s the same as saying “yeah, if my wife wasn’t so hot and so damned awesome, I’d think about having sex with the gal that just walked past” without saying it.
Kind of the guy version of “if you love me, you’d know what’s wrong.”
@grim_truth - haha. touché.
@Hunt4Truth - Johnny and I are opposites…. he is actually and ISTJ and i’m and ENFP – he really is not leading the conversations with the young guys… he’s just participating. They bring him out of his introverted shell and he just wants to fit in… as far as this topic goes anyway.
I’ve read quite a bit about our temperament types. Its so bizarre to me that is is such a quiet committed man and at work his a horn dog with the guys. its’ so out of character….
@lonelywanderer2 - I think Johnny thinks its the largest part of his life…
@Hunt4Truth - I’m the extrovert… and believe it or not… I’ve actually considered (as a born again christian myself) swinging for it. I almost can’t believe I’ve admitted that. I’m just very open to make him happy and I am usually very easy going with this topic and try not to take stuff personal. but for some reason I feel like the consistency with the way he’s talking and the things he’s bringing up are starting to concern me.
Apparently your husband is conflicted and manages to be more outgoing and less interested in the social norms that you’d grown to expect. We all adapt to situations. The daily routine being different from home, at work, I’d adapt; and so would most people.
You know from types analysis what types prefer. You certainly are working on your problem. So, I’m certain that with time you may come to discover something that works better than what is not working.
I do see that he may actually last at and appreciate the life of a swinger more so than I did.
Of course, I still know very little about you two. When patterns emerge over a long time, the patterns that are in place are not going to suddenly change over night.
He is faithful.
Can you develop any agreement between you that keeps you two a couple; as is? I bet you can. I got the opposites right and not much else. You know way more about your situation. I’m certain you can form a system that works.
Free choice only occurs when we’re operating in a system and it works. Otherwise, other choices seem too attractive to hold on to what isn’t working — except for addicts. This can’t apply to an addict because they’ve given up on caring about what works for what controls them — irrational and destructive behaviors that consume them.
Sure, I understand – about considering swinging — that’s why I told you about it. Opposites find themselves often wanting others involved to attempt to balance out the oppositions.
So far, you have Xangans and he has workmates (mostly male it seems). You asking for males to reply and getting a variety of male opinions may narrow down the problem and take it off the resentment boiler-pan, cool it down, and then form new strategies.
Good thinking.
Now, how is he going to benefit? Maybe you’ll gain insights into his motivation? Maybe you’ll encourage him to spend time with his types in personality – friends of his (not female/ISFJ or mature ISTJ or INTJ) – go fishing or shooting or camping with the kids or whatever those guys may like do?
I don’t know you from even yesterday, so maybe thats all I can give you today.
Hoping for your success,
Hunt
I clicked on friends. You may rather enjoy either blog (the other is eshunt.revelife.com). The other is now only Christian blogs. I moved anything else to the one I’m using here.
I generally hate being around other guys cause of this trash, and it’s hard to stop it without coming off as some religious fanatic or having them say you’re gay. Often times guys like this have an inability to appreciate differences in sexual preference. It’s just a big frustrating waste of time to even try to get idiotic, crude guys to understand.
@xXrEMmUsXx - I’ve been in that mindset, only to realize how stupid it is. I will be 50 next month. As far as the physical act of sex goes, I will never have most of the beautiful ladies, of all ages, that I see in this life, but I can enjoy their beauty. Not just their physical beauty, although that’s great, but their spirit.
My husband worked in construction for awhile before his current job, and he said it brought him down how guys would talk about girls and lust intensely after every girl that walked by. He was the only one who wouldn’t look at the subject of conversation walking by, and the only one who didn’t join in on the conversation about what he’d do to her. He averted his eyes. They teased him a lot for that, even getting somewhat annoyed at him. They started to exclude him. He felt like they thought he was weaker or not as manly because he wouldn’t partake in that talk, and tried to avoid those thoughts.
My husband isn’t some superhero, but I do appreciate that he sacrificed being cool for being respectful toward me and the union he has with me. Know that if your husband does join in with these guys, it’s probably mostly from peer pressure, and not because he doesn’t love you or isn’t totally satisfied with you. If he didn’t, that might think he’s uncool and ostracize him a bit, like they did my husband.
lol old person fetish. It could be your husband does it because he’s not confident enough in himself.